Golden Bullion coins Queen Victoria and others - info sought

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aerogi
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Golden Bullion coins Queen Victoria and others - info sought

Post by aerogi »

Image

Image

we have these lying around for a long time now. But as this is totally not my area it is difficult to find out what the value is.

We have also 2 golden krugerrand, and there you can find info on a daily basis what the value is. I guess the year of issue has no influence on this value?

but the ones pictured are more difficult to determine. it seems it is not only the gold itself that matters, but also the year of issue. A google search shows many different values and too much information...

Anyone can shed some light or point to a good website that has good and clear information?
Last edited by Global Administrator on Wed Jul 10, 2019 08:37:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Expanded rather vague heading, to make more sense to members

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Re: Golden coins Victoria and others info sought

Post by ViccyVFU »

So we are looking at six GB "one pound" Sovereigns, and one Netherlands 10 guilder gold coin.

Top row sovereigns - Victoria - Bun Head, Jubilee Head, then two Veiled (old) Head

Second Row - Edward VII, George V, then a Wilhemina Netherland gold 10 Guilders.

Bullion values are easy:

Sovereigns weigh 7.98 grams, and are 22kt gold (thus 22/24 = 0.917 grade)
They are thus (7.98 * 0.917) / 31.1035 = 0.2354 Troy ounces of pure gold.
That means, with gold at GBP1121.07 per ounce troy, they each have a bullion content worth £263.90

10 Guilder Wilheminas weigh 6.729 grams, and are 0.900 grade
They are thus (6.729 * 0.900) / 31.1035 = 0.1947 Troy ounces of pure gold.
Bullion value = £218.27

For buying single sovereign coins (carriage excluded) you can expect to BUY at a 3.5% premium (i.e. about £273), and SELL at 3.5% discount (i.e. around £255). Same margin % on Wilheminas.

For a batch of five coins (or 5-10), the BUY and SELL premiums reduce to 2.8% on both sides, giving you more cash in your hand if you sell them in one transaction.

This assumes they are all just BULLION coins, which condition seems to indicate they are.

Sometimes the Bun Head Victoria adds a slight premium, but generally people prefer the Shield Back ones (which are slightly earlier in her reign).

You can check daily gold rates here:

http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/

(The international currency code for gold is XAU)

You can see a British bullion dealer site here:

http://www.chards.co.uk/products/buy-bullion-sovereigns

Some interesting questions answered about sovereigns here (right hand inset)

http://goldsovereignexpert.com/info/page/2/

(If you think any of the coins are higher grade, please provide close up scans of them, front and back ... as all I can make out from the general overview are a few surface blemishes and edge nicks).

For prices in Euros, multiply them all by 1.112 (or use the Euro rate for gold!!) :D

Hope this helps. Fire away with any further questions.

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Re: Golden Bullion coins Queen Victoria and others - info so

Post by Global Administrator »

As Viccy outlines, all are Bullion value pretty much. Which right NOW is at very high levels, so sell FAST!

This site gives you day to day scrap values in major currencies -

https://www.australian-coins.com/gold-c ... values.htm
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Re: Golden Bullion coins Queen Victoria and others - info so

Post by aerogi »

Hi and thanks for the information. very informative! So in the end it is really the weight and kt that determines the value.

I will try to make clear scans of the items.

We are not really sure what to do with them, but since a few friends had a visit from thieves, we might be thinking of selling these, as they represent quite some value.

We have also two Krugerrand items (1976).

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Re: Golden Bullion coins Queen Victoria and others - info so

Post by Global Administrator »

Krugerrands are priced on link above.
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Re: Golden Bullion coins Queen Victoria and others - info so

Post by ViccyVFU »

Difficult to give any hard and fast rules as to what you should do with them, because we don't know why you acquired them. If those objectives have been met (or gone away), then as the Sheriff notes, gold is fairly strong at present, and continued "direction and pace" is a complete unknown. (Up, or down).

Looking at the 10 year pattern, in Euros
(Gold is quoted in Dollars, but obviously the Dollar : Euro rate is also a consideration)
Image
You can see that now gold is at a relative six year high (although if you bought seven years ago... you've not gained anything, and might have lost a little bit, after dealing costs).

If you do nothing (A great favourite of what I refer to as "in the hole" investors, and "inertial populace") then ....

"If you died tomorrow".....

An Executor would record you had 3.6071 Troy ounces of gold, which have an encashable euro value of 4,323 (less applicable taxes).

Its that cold.

If you can think of a better use for those 4,300 Euro today (other than leave it in an envelope for the burglars), possibly avoiding some taxes along the way, then that's a choice for YOU (and YOU alone) to make.

Some people gift them to their children (or other relatives) as little "rainy day funds". (I have no knowledge of your context, or situation). In the UK, its important that the asset moves out of the donors physical control for that gift to be effective .... so its less efficient to leave them in your will.

(Different laws, taxes and treatments apply to different jurisdictions, and this note is only meant to be indicative of "some of the factors I think are worthy of consideration").

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Re: Golden Bullion coins Queen Victoria and others - info so

Post by aerogi »

ViccyVFU wrote:
Some people gift them to their children (or other relatives) as little "rainy day funds".
we (well, my wife) has them since childhood. it was 'grandpa' that gave these to his grandchildren at Christmas I think.

apparently a few have been used / sold by her parents for her teeth bracelet when she was 12.

The thing is, we hadn't paid attention to these coins or had any idea about value, until we heard about the thieves at our friends place.

We don't really need the money, but it would be safer on a bank account. And as stated gold is now on a high, it might be a good idea to sell the lot.

But that's for her to decide, it are her coins.

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Re: Golden Bullion coins Queen Victoria and others - info so

Post by GregN »

Quote:"But that's for her to decide, it are her coins."

Just my opinion gold still got some way to go ie up as world interest rates currently and in the future all ground down to zero with fiat currencies.

But ja that's just my two cents worth!

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Re: Golden Bullion coins Queen Victoria and others - info so

Post by doug2222usa »

You really should check for rare dates before you sell them for bullion.

For instance, an 1839 sovereign catalogs nearly double as the initial year for Victoria, 1838; only 20% as many were minted.

More, 1843 "narrow shield" catalogs USD $2500 and up. And 1862/1 overdate is not even priced. A variety of the 1859 catalogs 3 times as much as any other date in the 1850s; likewise a variety of the 1874, 10-20 times normal. An 1879, about 3 times normal.

Sovereigns from Australia and South Africa may have mint-marks, and some are quite scarce. Sorry I don't have images of any of these, but INFORM yourself before selling. Yours, by the way, are well above "average" condition.

Coin (and stamp) collector since 1952. Sold most of my coins and all of my currency at two Stack's New York auctions, 2012-2014.

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Re: Golden Bullion coins Queen Victoria and others - info so

Post by ViccyVFU »

doug2222usa wrote:You really should check for rare dates before you sell them for bullion.
That would be sage advice for anyone picking up this thread after a while, thinking "my coins are just like Aerogi's".

"One size does not fit all", but I did check them for the OP, before arriving at my answer.

I see 1879M, 1890, 1899, 1901, 1902, 1911 and 1927 for the Willhemena.

The 1879 would have been interesting as a UK issued coin, but it has a small M under the bust, meaning it was produced by the Melbourne mint.

Here's a typical Mebourne Mint coin (Not 1879), but it shows you where to look .....
Image

and from Aerogi's copy ....

Image
1879M is a very common variant. People see the 1879 and think they've hit paydirt, but you often "flip them over, to disappoint them" :( .

It also brings me to condition. You can see from the first image, that a high grade has a lot of detail in the hair band, and hair strands generally.

Aerogi's copy has a lot of wear, indicating it was probably "a circulating coin".

In terms of practical grading, most bullion coins only attract a slight premium for better condition grades, except for the two highest grades (EF / UNC).

I know in America, grading companies like to "steal a grade" by their "objectivity", but that $30 fee only adds about $25 to value (and then, only for the first purchaser).

In the UK, you can often see bullion coins, right through to VF, in the standard bullion drawer, with no premium at all. (Sure, they might try to convince bunnies to pay a small premium, but that "love" evaporates, when they buy them back!!).

What has changed significantly in the intervening six months (since I first wrote), it the price of gold, which has pushed Sovereigns up about 10%. (GregN - you were right :D ).

... Hypothetical, of course, unless you actually traded some in the period.

Gold has always been a bit of a rollercoaster ride. Big highs, big drops.

I think the current market turbulence, with the gold:silver multiple standing at 101.9, leaves a huge upside in silver (If "dabbling in metals" is "your thing").

Any medical cure usually requires tonnes of silver, and we don't hold big stockpiles.....
Whereas gold? We are awash with it (Even after "Covid-19 commemorative coin" demand :D ).

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Re: Golden Bullion coins Queen Victoria and others - info so

Post by GregN »

ViccyVFU quote "What has changed significantly in the intervening six months (since I first wrote), it the price of gold, which has pushed Sovereigns up about 10%. (GregN - you were right :D )."

I hope I am wrong about gold will just going up and up, but I quote from someone I read this from - "printing money is the only political solution because cutting benefits or raising taxes pisses people off.

They will totally debase the fiat system (MMS expanded monetary system) to pay the unemployed and gold will have no choice but to go way up".

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Re: Golden Bullion coins Queen Victoria and others - info so

Post by Global Administrator »

Greg, having a few gold bullion coins, bought for Bullion value, only a few years back has already proven a great deal especially for those of us who do not get paid in $US!
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